Welcome To the Arise podcast with Alethea Lamberson, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender and healing. And just wanna welcome a colleague and a dear friend. She's located in the Atlanta area and I love who she is. She is about belonging, she is about being with others in their stories. She's about being authentic and true to what she believes. And I'm just so honored to have her with me today and it's election season. So we're gonna get into it and talk a little bit about that belonging Tiffany Cross from MSNBC whose contract wasn't renewed. And I encourage you to listen in and with curiosity and hold space for any kind of resistance you feel and just be curious about that and jump in with us.
From Danielle: "Alethea is a skilled facilitator, and compassionate truth teller - and all around good people. Alethea teaches me, through her way of moving in the world, to continue to use my own voice. I know her to bring her awareness in difficult spaces for herself and others in moving towards healing. Alethea lives her life through the lens of love."
I would be honored to co-host a podcast with her any time.
She is also a DEI consultant, lives in Atlanta, GA, and loves being an auntie!
Is...." A Black woman. Love being a black woman. Proud to be a black woman single, live in Atlanta, Georgia. Love it here. One of the homes of the civil rights movement. So it's been great to live here. And I love, one of the things I love about living here is I'm in the majority in a lot of places, which I was not used to prior to six years ago when I moved here. So it's part of, I feel like who I am and what I get to experience in my day to day, which is refreshing. I have served in the non-profit sector for the last 10 years specifically in a sports ministry context. But over time, that evolved to getting into doing work around training and development in the areas of race, power, privilege, ethnicity, culture in the gospel. And so really for my own journey, one understanding of how being a racialized person in a racialized society, what my experience has been. And I didn't have language for a lot of my experiences until I was probably 27 years old and realized that God cares about that. So that was just so new to me. So I feel like part of who I am is helping others understand themselves first and foremost of how they experience the world, how they show up in the world how they navigate the world. And then adding the faith perspective in as well and combining the two. And so that's very much a part of who I am is our history as followers of Jesus in this sense matters, but also who we are as people in whatever place we call home. For me it's here in the US in Atlanta, Georgia."
Danielle (00:40):
Welcome To the ARise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender and healing. And just wanna welcome a colleague and a dear friend. She's located in the Atlanta area and she gives herself a robust introduction here and I love it because it is who she is. She about belonging, she is about being with others in their stories. She's about being authentic and true to what she believes. And I'm just so honored to have her with me today and it's election season. So we're gonna get into it and talk a little bit about that belonging Tiffany Cross from MSNBC whose contract wasn't renewed. And I encourage you to listen in and with curiosity and hold space for any kind of resistance you feel and just be curious about that and jump in with us. I mean, let's get into it. But Alicia, tell me a little bit about who you are, what you do. Yeah, jump in. Who are you?
Alethea (01:52):
, who am I? That's a great question. Are you? I am a black woman. Love being a black woman. Proud to be a black woman single, live in Atlanta, Georgia. Love it here. One of the homes of the civil rights movement. So it's been great to live here. And I love, one of the things I love about living here is I'm in the majority in a lot of places, which I was not used to prior to six years ago when I moved here. So it's part of, I feel like who I am and what I get to experience in my day to day, which is refreshing. I have served in the non-profit sector for the last 10 years specifically in a sports ministry context. But over time, that evolved to getting into doing work around training and development in the areas of race, power, privilege, ethnicity, culture in the gospel. And so really for my own journey, one understanding of how being a racialized person in a racialized society, what my experience has been. And I didn't have language for a lot of my experiences until I was probably 27 years old and realized that God cares about that. So that was just so new to me. So I feel like part of who I am is helping others understand themselves first and foremost of how they experience the world, how they show up in the world how they navigate the world. And then adding the faith perspective in as well and combining the two. And so that's very much a part of who I am is our history as followers of Jesus in this sense matters, but also who we are as people in whatever place we call home. For me it's here in the US in Atlanta, Georgia.
So that's very much part of who I am. That's the type of work I do. And so now I've transitioned, I'm still in a nonprofit space but transitioned to a different space and continuing that work. So under the, what the other people call it, under the umbrella of dei, you know, everyone's like dei, what is that? I thought it was more common, I say it than people ask me, but diversity, equity, and inclusion. I've seen some people adding the B on there belonging, which is very intriguing to me. Brene Brown just has a two part podcast two part series on her podcast that she put out with two women of color. And I listened to part one about a week ago and was like, Oh, okay, this is some good stuff for me to think about. So anyway, so that's what the type of work I'm involved in.
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But for me, it's not just a job, it's what I feel like to commit my life to right now. I feel very much a calling and a commitment to that type of work because it matters if we can see and how polarized just our country is not even thinking about the world cuz then we get into it. Even more matters there. But anyway, so that's part of who I am. I live in the context of community. Community is very important to me. So it hadn't been prior to 10 years ago I didn't understand the value of community but I knew I was longing for it. I knew something was missing. And so I feel like very part of much of who I am is being my connected to community. And I have an awesome community of people around me, both here in Atlanta and all over the country.
I feel like when you hear people talk about me, one of the things that they will say is Alethia highly values her people. And I do. And so that, that's very significant to me, very much part of who I am. And I love being an auntie. I'm an auntie. It's my favorite title. I would probably say I love being a sister and a cousin, a friend, all that. But auntie is by far my favorite title of any title I've ever had. Lots of nieces and nephews part of my larger family, not just blood related but I love, love those kiddos and get to see one of my nephews next week, which I'm really excited about. But that's very much part of who I am. If you know me, I love being an auntie. So yeah, some of who I am,
Danielle (05:55):
I could see why you would want the word belonging in there. Cause I mean your story is about not only belonging to others but being belonged to.
Alethea (06:04):
Yes. And it's just been good for me to start reading some more about D E I B and just the significance of having belonging on the end of that. We belong to one another. One of the things some of my colleagues that we work together, we say we're better together and that's part of what we're trying to one live out but also help other people understand as well. And so I just love that. I don't feel like I can add it yet. I don't know, I feel like I'm just learning. So it feels weird to be like, yeah, I'm doing D E I D and it's like I'm still trying to figure out that part. But the more I read about it, the more I hear people talk about it in their work, the more I'm like, yeah, that actually is a significant part of it. Cuz if people don't understand that who we belong to and what belonging looks like and how to understand that, we're gonna miss out on some of those other elements that we're trying to reach people with.
Danielle (07:00):
Yeah, I mean as a Latina, as a Mexican, I'm like, yeah, if we don't belong then it just feels bad. , we see that playing out across society right now. So yeah,
Right so we were talking, you and me were like, hey, I was like hey we should do a podcast together. And we were like, what should we talk about? And I gave you seven things, and at the end I was like, well what about if something comes up? And here we are on election day and you texted me last night and you texted me this story about Tiffany Cross and we'll jump into that. But I mean how can we even jump into that without saying where we are literally today? And I mean you're in Georgia and it feels to me out here in Seattle, Washington, we are very interested in what happens in Georgia.
Alethea (07:48):
A lot of people are, yes, it feels reminiscent of the 2020 election. Again, all eyes on Georgia, it was very funny, I was getting text as I was going to bed, I'm watching the polling numbers for Georgia from people that don't live here. I said, yeah, I gotta stop, I gotta go to bed. But yeah, it is all eyes I know on us among a few other states as well. But yeah, it's huge. Stacy Abrams running for governor again her race in 2018 was wild. And I still was talking to someone recently and they were like, I was kind of surprised she ran again and I actually read her post this morning, she posted cuz people have asked that question, why would you run again when you have such a public loss? And I love what she talked about, about who she is, where she comes from, her connection to her family when she lost what she did and why she's running again.
She has so much purpose, which I love, it's very clear for her. But yeah, it was a wild, 2018 was wild cuz Brian Kemp was the Secretary of state. So he was overseeing the election he was running in which I still to this day am baffled how is that legal ? But it's apparently it's legal here in Georgia. So yeah, we have a significant number of major seats up for election actually. So governor, lieutenant governor, Secretary of State Attorney General, and then the Georgia State Superintendent. And so big things going on here in Georgia. So yeah, big day here and I hope Stacey Abrams wins. I voted for her, I had such a warm feeling and smile on my face and I got to vote for her when I went to vote on Friday. But yeah, it's gonna be ING to see and her social media, it will continue to be a buzz as all eyes are on us today and probably into tomorrow as well.
So I know some of the votes actually in one of our counties have until November 14th to get them in because Georgia is one of the many states that passed a voter suppression bill last year and SB 2 0 2. And that bill is very problematic. And one of the things, the issues in that bill, which we saw in one of many ways come out just the other day, which the A C L U got involved was there are over a thousand people in one of the counties that never got their absentee ballots. And they were supposed to because of in the bill, it changed the amount of time that people have to request their absentee ballot and then to get it in. And people, I don't think people knew that. But then what happened was it backed everything up and there's not enough officials to process some of the things.
And so in Cobb County they didn't get over a thousand ballots out and so they were supposed to mail them on Friday overnight they did it. So the A C L U got involved, sued Cobb County and won yesterday. And so the ballots went out, I think last night overnighted, but they have until November 14th to get them in. So as I was reading this morning on the so informed Instagram page, every vote matters because of how close on those races are. So I'm be interesting to see how much those votes, while we wait for those to come in, will affect some of the larger things in the state
Danielle (11:07):
. Yeah, it's interesting. I think people from around the country get hyper focused on something is something that is happening in another state. And I was just talking to an elder in our community and we have things that matter in our county, in our state that we also need to be, We can't just assume because Seattle's a blue area or Washington's blue that it doesn't matter that we don't vote for instance, there was millions of dollars poured in from out of state to run television ads for a particular conservative candidate and the ad was literally the Democrats have opened the border and two, there's a picture of a two year old getting supposedly killed by Fentanyl and it's because of immigrants. And you're just like, I was telling my friend, I was like, that happened in Washington. And we're like, yeah, that that situation necessarily happened but that the political money pouring in actually happened. , which I think really highlights a lot of why you sent me this article, , because whose voice matters, whose vote
Who gets equal air time , who is allowed to say what they think , who's allowed to push conspiracy theories, who's allowed to push voter suppression, and whose voice actually get eliminated from the . So I mean you sent me this article on Tiffany Cross and I'm just curious how you came across it.
Alethea (12:40):
Yeah, I mean all over social media. So I think it was on Friday Tiffany Cross, she hosted it was called the Cross Connection on msnbc. It was a weekend show and I just open up Instagram and my feed is just filled with people responding and reacting to Tiffany Cross not having being fired or something. And I'm like, wait, what? So look into it some more and find out her contract wasn't renewed but they, MSNBC sever ties with her immediately, which is not common . And so social media obviously is in an uproar. So that's actually how I found out about it. Just some different accounts I follow everyone was talking about it. Tiffany Cross is a black woman for those who don't know. And she held I think a significant spot especially in talking about politics and things of that nature. And so for her contract to not be renewed, but for four days before the midterms for her, immediately her show was just done.
It was very problematic. So again, that's how I initially found out about it. I've just been reading quite a bit about it. And I think too, for me as a black woman there Friday was, it was like that happened and then an album dropped where Meg, the stallion was very inappropriately targeted in the album by Drake and 21 Savage. And so I think for me there was also this other layer of, First it was about Meg, the stallion, so that's my social medias and then we find out Tiffany cross' show, she's just done, It's like, hold on, what's happening to black women today? So I think it was also compounded in that nature too. But yeah, that's how I found out about it was the buzz on social media,
It's been thinking quite a bit about this over the last few days and it's just such an interesting thing to navigate, I think being a black woman and seeing what happens to black women in media and in public and things of that nature. And so there's this double whammy of what's happening where we're in election season and so it's like black women save us every time. Black women save us. Like, oh my gosh, we gotta get Stacy Abrams in first, black female governor. Black women are, we gotta get 'em out and they're gotta get people voting and we need black women, black women to save us. That's what it's been for the last few years. So you have this happening again now in 2022. And at the same time, black women are being targeted for who they are as people, which is what happened to Meg, the stallion or because of how they show up in a space, which is what happened to Tiffany Cross. And so yeah, it's interesting to watch it. Very problematic to watch it unfold in that sense of, so you want us when it's convenient, but don't do too much . Hey Tiffany, don't be that candid. Don't use that type of language. Be careful of how you say certain things. But we want you to for so you can reach an audience that our network is not reaching. So I looked it up msn nbc, part of the reason they brought on Tiffany Cross she is said, I wrote an article that her audience was 55% female, 35% African American. She was targeting a specific audience. That's part of the reason why MSNBC brought her on. So it was almost like, hey, we know people listen to you and people watch you and so it's going to help us and that's really what we care about, but we don't wanna deal with the heat that comes with that. So we can only handle it for so long. So after a couple years, we'll see you . And I feel like the thing that's very common with black women, it's like, hey, we know people listen to you. We know people follow you. We know that you hold a significant place in society, but we only want part of you. And when we're done with that part we'll throw it out. Move on. And so I feel like again, that's really what happened. I feel like what happened with Tiffany is another example of that which is not uncommon. I feel like for the black experience in particular being a black woman in this country.
Danielle (16:50):
I mean I read a couple articles and they called her far left. I was like, Oh what Oh, Far left about. And I wondered if they needed to mirror the fact that they're now calling these extreme conservatives. Far . When I started reading what was far left, it really wasn't her views, it was more the way she communicated. Weren't comfortable with her candid observations,
She wasn't actually purporting certain ideologies, it was more like observations. So I found that very curious. Did you pick up on that? Yeah.
Alethea (17:30):
I mean I feel like that again happens all the time. So I think we live in such a polarized society right now that it's the easiest thing to do is to pinpoint people. They're either far right or far left, no in between. It feels like you're, you say one thing that has a tinge of what we deem progressive liberal so far outreaching because it's so counter to what people on the very far side of conservatism would say. You're just deemed you're far left. And I don't think that's a helpful thing to do. And essentially, cuz really look at what you did was, well what's her ideologies? What is it that she is portraying or talking about that would put her in this quote category that people are putting her in their Audi is, well that's not true, but it takes some work. You had to read some things to say, Is that really true?
Cuz I don't really know, so let me find out. But we don't know how to do that. We just do a couple clicks. And someone else told me she's far left, so I just gotta believe that she's just as far left person because she had to come back to Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and they're far, so she's gotta be far left. And I think that's just pretty sadly very common in our society right now is it's easy to categorize people. And so really no, let's get underneath that. What was she actually doing that you didn't like? didn't like how candid she was? You didn't like that She held a spot on a weekend show, the most watched weekend show, and it was on MSNBC and she's the second most watched weekend cable news show in America. In America on the weekends. People got time on the weekends, they're watching tv.
It was the second most watch in all of America in the us. And so what you didn't like was she held a significant place in cable news and you didn't like how she very honestly talked about situations and people. Now was she kind of bra with her some of her wording? Yes, she was. I read some of the stuff that she said like I don't know if I would say that on cable news, but hey, we're different people. But again, it's like, well then where does the standard lie? Because Tucker Carlson can be that brash and be that racist and that sexist, that misogynistic and it's fine because that's just who he is. So it's okay. But if Tiffany does it now, it's a problem. Now we're not gonna renew your contract.
Danielle (19:54):
Yeah. I just have even a hard time. I'm not, I just feel like Tucker Carlson actually won a lawsuit saying he actually doesn't tell the truth. That's how he won the lawsuit. Right? He's like, Actually you can't be deceived by me cuz I don't tell the truth. So he gets to stay online. It's interesting. It's not interesting. It's not a surprise that he targeted her. And it's also not a surprise that he actually carries that much power. And MSNBC is supposedly more liberal,
Alethea (20:29):
Supposedly that part. Right? Supposedly there's supposed a close up part, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think I just had this thought too, when you're making that comment of he win the lawsuit by saying, Hey, I don't sell the truth, but the power that comes with that. So I was reflecting on, as I was prepping to vote, actually last week, I was going back through and actually reading the bill SB 2 0 2 of what the voting laws used to be and what they turned into because of this bill. And then I went through and I was looking at as much research as one can do, right? I'm looking at all the different candidates for all the different things we're voting for here in Georgia. And I found it interesting that several of the Republican candidates voted for SB 2 0 2 and I was like, Help me understand something.
If you are certain there was no voter fraud in the state of Georgia in 2020, why do we need to pass a bill to secure voting ? I don't understand that. I'm trying to understand if you are say, I mean people are saying there was no fraud here. Brad. Brad, he was like, I will not overturn the election. I will not find you 11,000 votes cuz it's not true. Our elections are safe and secure. What he said in 2020, why do you need to pass a bill then to tighten up, to tighten up voting rights if there's no fraud? Because even though they were saying we, there's no fraud in Georgia, you still believe the lie that there was fraud in the election. And so part of what you did, Brian Kemp, and the power that he has held as governor is, yeah, he doesn't like me anymore. 45. Okay, that's fine, but I'm gonna pass a bill because I have the power to do that because I wanna make sure I get reelected. Even though I've said, even though I've said there was no fraud, Rod Rothenberger Secretary of State said there was no fraud in our election, but I'm gonna vote for that bill.
And so it's again, it's that point that you made of the power that comes with stuff like that and the ability to cling to a lie or just blatantly lie and still win or still have progress forward or still be able to hold your seat . And again, that's very common in our country. I think it's embedded in the very foundation of this nation. And so again, it's not surprising, but again, I think that's the part of the historic part that people wanna overlook is it's still playing out today. You can say, I don't believe a lie, but actually believe a lie by that your actions that you take.
Danielle (22:58):
And I would even go so far as to say I don't actually think they don't know the truth. I think that's letting people off hook. And I think they know it's a lie and they're like, But the lie feels good to me.
So the lie feels so good. And also I actually know my ass is on the line. If we do this legal, I may not get reelected. So I have to find a quote legal way, Votes for me, and to eliminate certain populations from the likelihood that they can vote. Of the things I think Tiffany Cross could highlight, would highlight around this season. And people did not want the spotlight on Georgia, on Seattle, on places where there's inequities. Arizona, I've already theories coming from my own family, I'm like, Lord, have mercy have to mute you. I think they don't wanna hear that. So now you just have sson, right?
Alethea (24:04):
Yep, yep. I mean that's what, at the end of the day, people, it sounds good initially, but the reality is when you keep talking about it and you keep doing it, it's like, Oh, you actually meant what you said in 2020 that actually mattered two years later, you're still talking about it. Oh, we thought that would pass. So it was a convenience. It makes us look good as a network. It makes us look good to hire someone like Tiffany Cross to bring on a joy read or Simone Sanders. I think about these black women who have been brought on in particular to talk about one, to talk about the reality in part of black people in our country, among other people people of color among other marginalized groups. So they're not just highlighting black people. We're gonna highlight the marginalized communities in our nation because not enough people, Tucker Carlson's not talking about that me.
Kelly's not talking about that. They're not talking about that stuff on Fox News. They're not talking about some of those things even on a CNN or something. So because it will increase your viewership, it's a smart move from a business standpoint. It's a smart move. And we have to check our box and say, Look, we're more diverse. We're trying to diversify what we have on cable news. But then you keep talking about it and you keep talking about it and you're like, Wait a second, I don't know where we actually weren't ready for that . And we can't take the heat that comes with that. Because part of what Tiffany was doing in her candidness and her brashness was msnbc, from what I've read, was taking heat because of things that she was saying on air. And they didn't want her to do that. And so at the end of the day, you get to a point where you're like, Well, we don't either like that, or we can't handle the heat that's coming with that.
So yeah, we'll let Fox News do whatever they wanna do, but here we're just not gonna do that. We can't handle it. So instead of continuing to work with her and navigate some of that even, I would say let her be who she is as a journalist, as an reporter, whatever spot she's filling and letting her be that and being able to sit in the tension of the heat that's coming with that. Because the reality is, that's part of what is, I feel like as a person of color in this nation is there's going to highlight being a part of a marginalized community. We're gonna highlight the things that people don't wanna see, that people don't wanna talk about, that people don't wanna hear about. Because one, especially, and I can say too in a marginalized group, but part of there's privilege. I also hold, it's uncomfortable , so it's uncomfortable for people.
I wonder how uncomfortable it is. People are like, Oh, well there's a black woman that's president at msnbc, you guys are missing the point. It's not just about that , right? It's so much deeper than that. It's so much greater than that. But there's a part of it, it's like it makes me uncomfortable, so I don't wanna deal with my discomfort, so I just remove it. I ignore it. Right? I minimize it. And that's part of, I think what happened with Tiffany too is because of the things that she would talk about. I don't believe it's just in the way that she said it. I don't believe that at all. , right? That that's an excuse to defend a decision. But I think it's because of what she highlighted and what she represented in that space that people outside of MSNBC didn't like it. So then it required MSNBC to do something and they had a choice. We can keep her and deal with it and deal with the tension that comes with that, but we really care about who she's targeting. We want people to engage, We need to talk about this. Or we can do what other people do, other companies, other organizations, other businesses and say, Hey, it was cool for a year or two, but you gotta go. Right,
Danielle (27:33):
Right. And what's your sense there? She was gaining power. If she didn't have power, that would be no threat, let's say.There's complaints because there's power in her voice. And I think that experience likely, I know that experience, when you begin to use your voice and it carries some weight, then people are like, Oh, I actually didn't want that. Would say something and people will listen.
Alethea (28:01):
. Yeah. I don't think people realize that that's what comes with giving someone access to a space . And your motive isn't genuine or, and you have deceived yourself to thinking that it is right, or it was genuine, but you did not understand the layers of that or what would come with that. And then it got flipped really quick because you actually weren't ready for that. And so I don't think people realize when you have someone like a Tiffany Cross who's existing in a space where there's not a lot of black women existing, and the Billy for her to use her voice in the way that she does, people are gonna listen to her people. I didn't watch her show, I just don't watch cable news like that. But I've watched clips and things of that nature on social media and I'm like, Man, she got some fire
She got some fire. And as a black woman who I feel like it can engage similarly, I might not be as brash, but I'm candid. I feel like I'm pretty candid. I hold back at times depending on the context, but I feel like I've come more into myself over the last few years. People start listening to you and then the people who are in the power positions above you are like, Wait a second, what's happening?
People actually like this. Oh, people are actually supporting her. So now, because you weren't ready for that, because you didn't think about that, and because Tiffany did start getting some power in that space because people were listening to her and people appreciated how she engaged with space, what she talked about, what she sent, what she made central. You have other journalists and reporters bringing heat on msnbc, and it's gonna be hot for a little while. Tiffany's not gonna go away. Someone else will pick her up and she's out. I saw this morning on Instagram, she's out doing her thing, helping people with voting, making sure people are getting out to vote. But when you've got a Latasha Brown founder of Black Widows Matter, a Jemele Hill, a Simone Sanders, a Joy Reed jumping in quick to say stuff, you're gonna feel that. And that's what comes with it.
(30:13):
When you wanna take that away because you weren't prepared for what that person would represent and what would come with that, that's the consequence of it. But to your point, she was gaining power. I think that cuz people listen to her , it makes sense though. She was reaching a group that wasn't being reached, at least on msnbc. So it makes sense. But if your viewership is up, that means people are engaging for a reason. , you don't just become the second most watch show and all of America if people don't actually care to hear what you have to say.
Danielle (30:44):
And I think that's the thing, people don't want that powerful group in America to have a voice . And so it's led folks like us or Tiffany to find alternative ways to communicate
And to go around mainstream media. I mean, you know, think about this liberal organization, and I often think of Seattle when I think of that. It's very similar on the outside. It's like shiny. It's blue. It's like, we got you. And then my friend, this elder in the community was telling me when the clan split in Oregon, the guy that came up to Seattle said, Well now I can just take my hood off and put a suit on. And I was like, that's true, right? Because we have this area, and even in our county where the indigenous lands were taken a close friend of mine had a Japanese family here and their land was taken and they were deported to a camp. And then that land is worth millions of dollars on the water . So whose voices do we remove? What history has been removed? And Tiffany embodies that, right? Yep. You said as a platform. And she embodies so much of that. And she's one particular race from one particular world, majority people's group. And that is scary The truth that she can tell about Florida. I mean, I read it, I won't repeat it here, but I was like, I don't disagree.
Alethea (32:16):
Hey, the truth doesn't feel good sometimes, but truth is truth. So ,
Danielle (32:20):
Right? And sometimes I think I felt, when I read that, I was like, man, I wish I would've heard her say it. And I, I'll go back and find the clip just because I think it feels refreshing to hear someone on the other side be candid about all the BS that we have to invest . And I can understand why she was the most watched or second most watched.
Alethea (32:42):
So , yeah, she said things in a way that maybe validated people, but it was refreshing in a sense of that it was just different. And I think that's been part of it too. I think about some other, a joy read for example, different some differences in how she would communicate compared to Tiffany. But again, people tune in to Joy Reed, Simone Sanders got her own show. So you see again this the diversity of even the black women that represent those spaces. So I think in multiple contexts, it's very refreshing to hear people who are not prioritized, who are not heard from often, who look different and sound different. To hear them talk in a way where you're like, Dang, you said that on cable news.
You're actually gonna call it what it is. You're not gonna shy away. I mean, Trevor Noah, I think about him, for example, on a daily show, there's a reason people enjoy watching Trevor Noah is because again, he's gonna talk about things and be honest and be candid about some of those things and say, I mean, this is true. This is what it is. So again, it's not a popular voice from certain people,
Danielle (33:56):
But let's be clear, she said some of these comments on a separate podcast, and then she was that part Tucker Carlson's out here spewing garbage every single day on the platform.
Alethea (34:09):
Yeah, I heard that from what I read, the story around MSNBC is that, yeah, that was, I guess the cherry on top that got her contract not renewed was what she's done a podcast separate. Again, people would say, Well, she's representing the network. I hear that. But what I really think it was, was that she did not shy away from saying stuff in response to people like Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly who would publicly bash her on their shows publicly. They took Tiffany's name and drug it through the mud every single time they could. And so what I think was my opinion is MSNBC didn't like, while Tiffany would engage in that. And part of me is again, hey, people that are being beat down the most in society, we see it happening. But please don't ruffle feathers. Don't say nothing. I understand. I've navigated spaces being in a predo, predominantly white context where I've been told to minimize parts of who I am and not show up fully as I am because the people in the room can't handle it.
They don't know what to do with it. You're gonna be viewed a certain way if you X, Y, Z. And so I've minimized parts of who I am to try to be in those spaces without being able to fully be myself. But it's okay for in the predominantly white spaces for the white folks to say and do as they please . And I just gotta take it. Someone's touching my hair, I, I'm just supposed to take it is what I'm told, what I've been told. Well, I'm not gonna do that anymore and I'm not gonna deal with their discomfort. Don't touch my hair. That's part of my body. You didn't ask me something as minor yet. Very significant as an example again. And so I think it was because Tiffany wasn't willing to be used in that way and to be talked about in the ways that she was being talked about.
So in her humanity as a human to say, I will not let you talk about me like that. So I am gonna respond to you and you're gonna keep talking about me and I'm gonna keep responding to you. And I know that you think you can just get away with it and do whatever you want. But I'm gonna keep saying it because I am here and I can say it. And I think that's part of MSNBC couldn't handle what was coming back from that because of how she was attacking or responding to other news anchors who were coming for her neck every chance they could get. Which is wild to me. Wild to me, defending her from my understanding, doing nothing, saying nothing, saying, Hey Tucker, chill homie. Stop saying that about Tiffany saying none of that. So you guys expected her to get on the second most watch show in America and not say anything in response to the stuff that's being said about her. Make it make sense.
Danielle (36:50):
Yeah. I always, I struggle so much with this idea on the small level and on the big level of the bully can do whatever, and you're never supposed to respond. That just for me, it's always a struggle. It's a struggle with how to teach my kids how to deal with it, especially when there's no one to go to that can help them out. It's a struggle with clients I see in a system that's gonna continue to bully them. And I see it here. I know some people are like, Well, you know, just gotta take it like you said. And then at what point are you like, Yo, this is abuse.
This is not just like, oh, you know, suck. This is repeated bullying, repeated hard behavior towards someone that's abusive and slandering. And you're right. Where was msnbc? That's their job.
Alethea (37:43):
. If you don't want her to respond to that, then it's your responsibility to protect your employees . So, because for me, it's like Tiffany is a human before she is any, she's a news anchor before she's a journalist. Yeah. She embodies all of those things. But she is a human first and foremost. And so I'm not saying you get on a cable news show and you just be cussing people out. I'm not saying do that. Okay, lemme be clear about what I'm saying here is she should be able to respond to the vitriol that's being thrown her way, the racism and the misogyny that's being thrown her way, especially as a black woman in a space of journalism and reporting and a news anchor that that's not common. There's not a lot of women of color women, but then women of color in particular and then black women. And so you have to understand the dynamics that are at play there. And to expect her to show up every weekend and not say anything and you not do anything to protect her or have her back. I think they did her dirty. And at the same time I'm like, Tiffany, go somewhere else. Right?
Cause you will get picked up. Go somewhere else where you will be supported, where you won't have to show up every weekend and defend yourself because the people that hired you and supposed to have your back. So go somewhere else, girl. Cause you won't get picked up. Go somewhere else.
Danielle (39:14):
Right? I mean, I don't wanna linger too long on this, but just to even bring up the point of the tack on Paul Pelosi, the kind of rhetoric from Tucker and these other pundits, it's actually violent. Yes. This is not just a racial slur, just anything. This is actually inspiring these nationalists to go and take physical action against other people. I mean, we're talking about mental distress and I'm not invalidating that. But this is physically dangerous for people. And so his attacks are actually inciting violence towards her body, not just that emotional, mental
But there's the potential, and I'm sure the very real physical threat to her and to people like you and me who walk about and tell the truth. And so I do think that we have to stand for one another and it's important. Yes. Cause the threat is not just, I don't wanna say just, but it is mental emotional, but it also physical threat.
Alethea (40:14):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm so glad you named that too because again, the way of our society is right now, it doesn't take much. You have someone who literally said, You can't say that because I'm telling you, I don't tell the truth. And people are like, And we like watching you and we believe that you, and you just told us you lie. You have to do some crazy mental gymnastics to get to a point of believing someone who literally said, I don't tell the truth. That's wild to me. But because of the way our society is right now, where you're getting stuff, you're hearing so much from we have access to everything, all the sound bites, all the things. And so you're getting this constant leap fed in. And so yeah, Tiffany's having to navigate showing up at work every weekend and saying, Okay, here's what they said about me.
Here's what I gotta respond to. Here's what I prep for. While I'm also trying to highlight what people of color in other marginalized communities are navigating in our political season. I gotta hold both. It's already distressing. Now I gotta hold both of these every weekend. And then because of the things that are being said, and we see the attack on Paul Pelosi knowing they were coming for Nancy Pelosi, what happened? They were going to kidnap the governor of Michigan. What? Gretchen Whitmer is that her name. Because of things that were said about her people said, Oh, we're gonna kidnap her
. So now her physical body is in danger, right? Because people don't like, cuz she's liberal or progressive and so we need to take some physical action, not just demean her. Cuz it's not enough to do that. It's not enough to get on social media and say some really crazy things about people. We're actually gonna respond in a physical way. And we're seeing that all over when you tell a lie that there's voter fraud and people have believed this lie and internalized it like Georgia and Arizona and some of these other states, people cheated the election. The election was wrong. The results were wrong two years ago, . So you know what? We're actually gonna show up and threaten people at the polls. It happened in Arizona last week. Yep. I'm actually nervous about what it's been like in certain places of Georgia today because of the fear that is stoked by people like a Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and others.
There's so many other of them. But it turns into not just seeing your point, not just some emotional and mental distress, but it's a physical, I'm now feeling that in my body and I have to leave my job. I'm going to go vote in person because in Georgia it's really hard to vote with your mail in because of the rotor suppression bill. So now, now I really need to go in person. Cause I don't know if you actually get my vote if I mail it in. So now there's more potential harm to me as a black and brown person in the state to show up at the polls. Cause I have no idea what I'm gonna encounter. Because a bunch of people believe there was a lie from two years ago and they wanna incite violence to scare people. It's a whole nother layer. That's why we are, I love the work that you do.
And what some of I've been learning over the last year or so is the body work. It's to be connected to our bodies. And I can only imagine what it's been like for Tiffany over the last year with what she's had to endure in a very public way. , you're the second most watched show on the weekend. It's a very public thing. And then you add in social media and all of those things. , I can only imagine what it's been like for her to leave MSNBC every day that she had to go there and just go about her day. Cuz people recognize her. People know her face, they know her voice. They know her name. So there's an added distress to that. We hold in our bodies as women, as people of color in this very crazy, violent society that we live in
Danielle (43:58):
That breath. I mean honestly. Right? I mean, think over the next weeks we're all gonna be holding our breath And for good reason. I mean, I think what's so telling about Tiffany is just that it could be any of us and it has been any of us in different systems in different places. And actually know that the truth is you don't actually have to be crass You don't have to be radical or far left. You can actually just say, Hey, I think Kitsap County has a racism problem. And people, No. Right. Just what you're talking about with voter suppression in Georgia, you can actually say something small people agree on For dominant culture. And then that can get you canceled or get you in or get you taken away from a position or power or you're an extremist or et cetera.
Alethea (45:12):
. Yep. That's actually why I wore my stay woke shirt today. Oh yeah, . Cause I, I knew we were gonna be recording, so I had to, even with that, I saw someone on Instagram, Jasmine Holmes the other day talked about how she gets labeled being so woke in her comment section or something when she's highlighting history. She's a history teacher, researcher. That's what she does. And she recite her sources all the things. But she's woke because she said, Hey, don't just listen to this black voice. Let me highlight all these other black voices that talked about slavery. But now I'm woke because I just gave you some history. So we joke there, some of the comments joking about how we take it as a compliment. Now. That's part of, I think what we do too, I think as people of color is we take the things and we have to turn it into some kind of joke or something like that. So we don't take the intensity of that with everything. Cause there's just so much of it. But yeah, it doesn't say, Man, that was racist. Gosh, you're so woke. I hope so. .
Danielle (46:32):
My night or whatever. So you feel like, what are your takeaways then around this time of year? Or what are the things you hold onto?
Alethea (46:44):
Good question. I think to answer what do I hold onto? I think for me it's part of it is my faith. My faith is what grounds me. My faith is also what puts me into action. And so when I think about the scriptures, when I think about Jesus embodied, right, walking this earth what did Jesus care about? The poor scriptures saw about the orphan, the poor, the widow, the oppress, the immigrant, the foreigner, the least of these, the poor, All of that's highlighted. And so for me, when I think about election season for me it's helpful as I'm thinking through who, who's running, More and more people are being educated around voting. So I think the more that people are being educated about policy, about what matters in your local and your state and federal, that more people are gonna start wanting to get engaged in policy politics for the good and for the bad.
So mindful of that but because we're learning more and understanding more, for me, my faith should move me to action in a way that I am able to hold the complexity of a politician and to know that no one politician stands for. I feel like everything I have conviction around or what I may believe in. So if I hold that view, that means I'm not gonna vote, right? Because I'm gonna be conflicted about every person. And so for me, as I even just went to vote on Friday last day of really voting here in Georgia. I did my research and for me, man, I wanna vote in a way, am I voting in a way that's going to center those who do not hold privilege like I do. When I think about the people here in Georgia, myself included. And so am I voting in a way where I can say that person, I don't agree with Stacy Abrams on every matter.
I don't cosign everything just cuz she's a black woman. We don't land in the same place in every way. But for me, with the things that she is going after and wanting to do as governor and the power that holds and who she's working for and her vision, I'm voting for her over Brian Kim . Cause I don't believe Brian Kim has the interest of those who are marginalized in our community. The second, there are two trauma centers in Atlanta. Atlanta Medical Center closed last, I think last week was last day. There's only one trauma center in Atlanta now Kim. And that one had been there forever. And this happened under Brian Kim, where the Atlanta Medical Center is in the old fourth ward. While it is gentrifying, because what city is not being gentrified right now, it's still that population. It was, it's an underserved, it's a lower income, predominantly black area.
And that close, that served a significant population of people. Grady is downtown. So now people have to travel a bit further. And so I think about things like that. So Stacey is not perfect. I don't agree with her on every policy and position she holds. But Stacey, to me, I can say as I think about my faith in expressing that there are things that she is going after that I can get behind. And there are things that I can say, I don't agree with her and I can try to hold what does accountability look like? So I feel like for me, reminded that there's a long game here that I can't put all my faith or X one basket type of deal with who wins the election, who does it What does that mean for me? No matter who's elected, there's a responsive for me as a citizen, as a neighbor, as a friend as a follower of Jesus, what do I do tomorrow?
What do I do on Thursday? What do I do on Friday? What do I do next week? What do I do in the next four years? Those things matter. So for me, I think for me, what do I hold onto to answer your question is did I do my homework, ? Did I do what I needed to do within my conscious and from where my faith grounding me? Did I act in a way that I can with clarity, say I feel really good about this decision and I can be really clear on don't, I'm not putting any of my value or worth in any political party because I really don't fit in either. And so that's been helpful for me the last few years to understand that. And so how do I live in a way where I vote and yet to say, and also say I don't agree with everything, but there's more here that I can align to than in other spaces.
So again, I think for me, my faith is not in a politician or a party. And so I can have clarity around that and some freedom there. And then to know there's a responsibility for me after November 8th and make sure I do that. And I continue to live in that way. So for me is what I feel like I've learned over the last few years in election seasons. There's been so many. I feel like 20 18, 20 20 and 2022. It's like this two year cycle of intense 16, 16, 18, 20 22. This intensity of elections every two years. So I feel like I've learned quite a bit over. I'm a different, I feel like I engage it differently six years later than I did in 2016. Cause there was just so much I didn't know six years ago. And what I put my hope in, what I put my faith in, I feel like it has shifted immensely.
And so I engage my civic duty. I posted this morning, I got to meet Mr. George Sally, he's 93 years old. I got to meet him in Selma Montgomery where we were together after our trip in August. And I posted about that this morning on my Instagram. And I said, on election day, I'm reminded of courageous people like George Sally who survived bloody Sunday and March 50 plus miles so that I could live out my right as a citizen and my engage, my civic duty and the privilege I have to vote. I recognize that. And so for me, that's also what I hold onto is as a black woman, I carry a responsibility that my ancestors so many did not get to do when they should have. They had every right as a citizen to vote. And they were not allowed to do that. And while that same is under attack, I still have more access and ability to vote that they did not have that George Sally didn't have in the sixties that he was fighting for.
And so for me, I also carry that with me, is to say it matters today, but it matters cuz of who those came before me. And I wanna honor, I honor that. I wanna honor Mr. George Sally, I wanna honor John Lewis from Atlanta. I wanna honor Afeni Lou Hamer. I wanna honor Shirley Chisholm. I wanna honor the black women and black men that are not named that I will never know, but who died trying to exercise their right to vote even in this very state. And so I hold onto that as well. That matters to me immensely. To not minimize that or overlook that in this time. And to know what they were fighting for granted me a right that I should have had. So I need to carry that legacy and say, what is it that I'm gonna continue to fight for so that when I look back, people look back at whatever amount of years, whether my name or not, I'm a part of that continued legacy of fighting for rights that we should have as citizens and just as people. Mm-hmm. ,
Danielle (54:13):
As I listen, I'm just aware of the way you have a gift of seeing people and their stories and the gift that you have to step in with truth and with honor for your ancestors and the work you're called to do now. And so I'm guessing that that's part of what you're doing with D Ei B . Like I wonder if you can own the B And I feel that in your communication, maybe you don't have the research of the technical term of it, but it is something I experience of you as a person and even in this conversation How do people find you? How do they find your work? How do they know what you're up to? I know you have your own podcast. I've listened to it.
Alethea (55:00):
. Yeah. Well first Danielle, thanks for Yeah, yeah, thanks. What you just said, that's very meaningful to me and I hold that and I appreciate that a lot. I think it's really important to name things for people that we may not see in ourselves or that I tend to overlook. So I appreciate you. Yeah, just naming that. So thank you. Yeah. I on You can find me on Instagram. I am not on Twitter for good reason now, but I haven't been on Twitter. I haven't been active on Twitter in a year. I took a break when I was on sabbatical last summer, and then when I tiptoed back in I was like, Oh, I don't wanna be here. And so I just deactivated my account though with the new Elon Musk take over and the crap show I'll say. But that has been so, I was like, I don't even want anything represented.
So I am no longer on Twitter. I love Twitter, but Twitter is too crazy right now. And I value my piece. So I'm on Instagram Leaf 14 l E A t h 14. That's my IG handle. You can find me on there. That's really where I occupy on social media. I have a TikTok, but I don't post anything public. It's all private. And then I share it from there, . So yeah, you can find me there. And then, yeah Danielle, you just said I cohost a podcast. It's called The Roll Down. It is on, I think, so many different, It's on Apple, Spotify. I didn't even know this, but it's on Google Podcast too. Not many people listen on there, but you can. Yeah, Apple and Spotify, it's there. Season one, we had 18 episodes. I co-host out with Matthew Melindres, one of my dear friends.
The roll down we say is a space where people of color to be known and seen and guidance for those in the pursuit of justice. And we are finally, after a long delay we are getting going with recording for season two. So be on the lookout for that. Subscribe, download, all the things. We really appreciate it. The podcast has been such a gift for Matthew and I in ways that we did not anticipate and super encouraging. So we, we've gotten the texts or dms. When are y'all coming back? When are y'all coming back? When can we expect season two? So it's coming, coming finally. I actually have things on my calendar this week to record. So yeah, the roll down podcast, you can find me there too. But yeah, feel free to dme. I like engaging with people. So yeah, y'all can hit me up, but that's where I'm at
Danielle (57:28):
This person list. I'm like, I want Alicia in my space working with my community, my business. You're doing DEI work. So is that possible through Instagram or is there an email that people should reach out to you for?
Alethea (57:41):
Yeah, I would say right now just DME on Instagram. That way I can yeah, connect that way. Yeah, because of where I left, I have more freedom to engage in the work that I feel called to do. And so I can doke some contract work, things of that nature. Consulting is something I feel like I'm really gifted at and I love helping people see things that they don't see and move forward in a better way. And to really understand how do you understand yourself as a person and then as a leader. So if you're an individual wanting some stuff or if you're a team, you lead a team and you're just trying like, how do I love my team better? How do I engage these conversations in a way that's meaningful? A lot of DEI work. There's actually a book that just came out today d e I deconstructed that I'm really excited to get to read.
I saw her on LinkedIn. Lily Zang I think is, I might be, I probably mispronouncing her last name. Z H E N G I believe. But she is a DEI consultant. She talks about how a lot of DEI work, people don't realize it, significance of it, and they're actually not ready for a lot of what they say they want. And so stuff falls through or they aim for something. And so for me as a consultant, I wanna say, what's, what are you trying to achieve and how do we get there? And then actually follow up and coach people along the way. I love coaching people too. So yes, hire me. I love this type of work. Got some credentials and I'm getting some more and just continue. I think I feel equipped in what I'm doing too. So yeah, hit me up on Instagram and yeah, we can go from there.