The Continuum of Moral Awareness “It’s not enough to build a system and then exit stage left when you realize it’s broken. The ‘I’m sorry’ is not the work — it’s only the acknowledgment that work needs to be done. After the apology, you must actually do the repair. And what I see from her is the language of accountability without the actions that would demonstrate it. That’s insufficient for real change.” Speaker 1 (00:00): Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. You're joining Jenny McGrath of Indwell Counseling and Rebecca Wheela Walston of Solid Foundation Story Coaching and Danielle s Reeb. And we're going to talk about Marjorie Taylor Green politics systems, and the moral continuum. Thanks for joining us.
“It’s not enough to build a system and then exit stage left when you realize it’s broken. The ‘I’m sorry’ is not the work — it’s only the acknowledgment that work needs to be done. After the apology, you must actually do the repair. And what I see from her is the language of accountability without the actions that would demonstrate it. That’s insufficient for real change.”
Danielle (01:03):
Well, I mean, what's not going on? Just, I don't know. I think the government feels more and more extreme. So that's one thing I feel people are like, why is your practice so busy? I'm like, have you seen the government? It's traumatizing all my clients. Hey Jeremy. Hey Jenny.
Jenny (01:33):
I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia. So close to Rebecca. We're going to soon.
Rebecca (01:48):
Yeah, she is. Yeah, she is. And before you pull up in my driveway, I need you to doorbell dish everybody with the Trump flag and then you can come. I'm so ready
That's a good question. That's a good question. I think that, I don't know that I know anybody that's ready to just say out loud. I am not a Trump supporter anymore, but I do know there's a lot of dissonance with individual policies or practices that impact somebody specifically. There's a lot of conversation about either he doesn't know what he's doing or somebody in his cabinet is incompetent in their job and their incompetency is making other people's lives harder and more difficult. Yeah, I think there's a lot of that.
(03:08):
Would she had my attention for about two minutes in the space where she was saying, okay, I need to rethink some of this. But then as soon as she says she was quitting Congress, I have a problem with that because you are part of the reason why we have the infrastructure that we have. You help build it and it isn't enough to me for you to build it and then say there's something wrong with it and then exit the building. You're not equally responsible for dismantling what you helped to put in place. So after that I was like, yeah, I don't know that there's any authenticity to your current set of objections,
I'm not a fan of particularly when you are a person that in your public platform built something that is problematic and then you figure out that it's problematic and then you just leave. That's not sufficient for me, for you to just put on Twitter or Facebook. Oh yeah, sorry. That was a mistake. And then exit stage left
Jenny (04:25):
And I watched just a portion of an interview she was on recently and she was essentially called in to accountability and you are part of creating this. And she immediately lashed out at the interviewer and was like, you do this too. You're accusing me. And just went straight into defensive white lady mode and I'm just like, oh, you haven't actually learned anything from this. You're just trying to optically still look pure. That's what it seems like to me that she's wanting to do without actually admitting she has been. And she is complicit in the system that she was a really powerful force in building.
Rebecca (05:12):
Yeah, it reminds me of, remember that story, excuse me, a few years ago about that black guy that was birdwatching in Central Park and this white woman called the cops on him. And I watched a political analyst do some analysis of that whole engagement. And one of the things that he said, and I hate, I don't know the person name, whoever you are, if you said this and you hear this, I'm giving you credit for having said it, but one of the things that he was talking about is nobody wants you to actually give away your privilege. You actually couldn't if you tried. What I want you to do is learn how to leverage the privilege that you have for something that is good. And I think that example of that bird watching thing was like you could see, if you see the clip, you can see this woman, think about the fact that she has power in this moment and think about what she's going to do with that power.
(06:20):
And so she picks up her phone and calls the cops, and she's standing in front of this black guy lying, saying like, I'm in fear for my life. And as if they're doing anything except standing several feet apart, he is not yelling at you. He hasn't taken a step towards you, he doesn't have a weapon, any of that. And so you can see her figure out what her privilege looks like and feels like and sounds like in that moment. And you can see her use it to her own advantage. And so I've never forgotten that analysis of we're not trying to take that from you. We couldn't if we tried, we're not asking you to surrender it because you, if you tried, if you are in a place of privilege in a system, you can't actually give it up because you're not the person that granted it to yourself. The system gave it to you. We just want you to learn how to leverage it. So I would love to see Marjorie Taylor Greene actually leverage the platform that she has to do something good with it. And just exiting stays left is not helpful.
Danielle (07:33):
And to that point, even at that though, I've been struck by even she seems to have more, there's on the continuum of moral awareness, she seems to have inch her way in one direction, but I'm always flabbergasted by people close to me that can't even get there. They can't even move a millimeter. To me, it's wild.
Well, I think about it. If I become aware of a certain part of my ignorance and I realize that in my ignorance I've been harming someone or something, I believe we all function on some kind of continuum. It's not that I don't think we all wake up and know right and wrong all the time. I think there's a lot of nuance to the wrongs we do to people, honestly. And some things feel really obvious to me, and I've observed that they don't feel obvious to other people. And if you're in any kind of human relationship, sometimes what you feel is someone feels as obvious to them, you're stepping all over them.
(08:59):
And I'm not talking about just hurting someone's feelings. I'm talking about, yeah, maybe you hurt their feelings, but maybe you violated them in that ignorance or I am talking about violations. So it seems to me that when Marjorie Taylor Green got on CN and said, I've been a part of this system kind of like Rebecca you're talking about. And I realized that ignoring chomp hyping up this rhetoric, it gets people out there that I can't see highly activated. And there's a group of those people that want to go to concrete action and inflict physical pain based on what's being said on another human being. And we see that, right? So whatever you got Charlie Kirk's murderer, you got assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King all throughout history we've seen these, the rhetoric and the violence turns into these physical actions. And so it seems to me like she had some awareness of what her contributing to that, along with the good old orange guy was doing contributes to violence. It seems to me like she inched in that direction.
Rebecca (10:27):
Yeah, like I said, I think you're right in that inching, she had my attention. And so then I'm waiting for her to actually do something substantive more than just the acknowledgement that I have been in error. And and I think part of that is that I think we have a way of thinking that the acknowledgement or the, I'm sorry, is the work, and it is not the, I'm sorry, is the acknowledgement that work needs to be done. So after you say, I'm sorry, now let's go do the work.
Danielle (11:10):
I mean our own therapeutic thing that we all went through that we have in common didn't have a concept for repair. So people are coming to therapy looking for a way to understand. And what I like to say is there's a theory of something, but there's no practical application of it that makes your theory useless in some sense to me or your theology, even if your ology has a theology of X, Y, Z, but you can't actually apply that. What is the use of it?
Jenny (11:43):
And I think that's best case scenario, and I think I'm a more cynical person than you are Danielle, but I see what's happening with Taylor Green and I'm like, this actually feels like when a very toxic, dangerous man goes to therapy and learns the therapy language and then is like it's my boundaries that you can't wear that dress. And it's like, no, no, that's not what we're doing. It's just it's my boundary that when there isn't that actual sense of, okay, I'm going to be a part of the work, to me it actually somehow feels potentially more dangerous because it's like I'm using the language and the optics of what will keep me innocent right now without actually putting any skin in the game.
(12:51):
Yeah, I would say it's an enactment of white womanhood. I would say it's intentional, but probably not fully conscious that it is her body moving in the way that she's been racially and gendered
(13:07):
Tradition to move. That goes in some ways maybe I can see that I've enacted harm, but I'm actually going to replicate the same thing in stepping into now a new position of performing white womanhood and saying the right things and doing the right things. But then the second an interviewee calls me out into accountability, I'm going to go into potentially white psychosis moment because I don't actually know how to metabolize the ways in which I am still complicit in the system. And to me, I think that's the impossibility of how do we work through the ways that these systems live in our bodies that isn't clean. It isn't pure, but I think the simplicity of I was blind now I see. I am very skeptical of,
Rebecca (14:03):
Yeah, I think it's interesting the notion that, and I'm going to misquote you so then you fix it. But something of like, I don't actually know how to metabolize these things and work them through. I only know this kind of performative space where I say what I'm expected to say.
Jenny (14:33):
Yeah, I think I see it as a both, and I don't totally disagree with the fact of there's not something you can do to get rid of your privilege. And I do think that we have examples of, oh goodness, I wish I could remember her name. Viola Davis. No, she was a white woman who drove, I was just at the African-American History Museum yesterday and was reminded of her face, but it's like Viola ela, I want to say she's a white woman from Detroit who drove down to the south during the bus boycotts to carpool black folks, and she was shot in the head and killed in her car because she stepped out of the bounds of performing white womanhood. And I do think that white bodies know at a certain level we can maintain our privilege and there is a real threat and a real cost to actually doing what needs to be done to not that we totally can abdicate our privilege. I think it is there, and I do think there are ways of stepping out of the bondage of our racial and gendered positions that then come with a very real threat.
Rebecca (16:03):
Yes. But I think I would say that this person that you're referring to, and again, I feel some kind of way about the fact that we can't name her name accurately. And there's probably something to that, right? She's not the only one. She's not the first one. She's not the last one who stepped outside of the bounds of what was expected of her on behalf of the Civil Rights Movement, on behalf of justice. And those are stories that we don't know and faces and names we cannot, that don't roll off the tip of our tongue like a Rosa Parks or a Medgar Evers or a Merley Evers or whoever. So that being said, I would say that her driving down to the South, that she had a car that she could drive, that she had the resources to do that is a leveraging of some of her privilege in a very real way, a very substantive way. And so I do think that I hear what you're saying that she gave up something of her privilege to do that, and she did so with a threat that for her was realizing a very violent way. And I would also say she leveraged what privilege she had in a way that for her felt like I want to offer something of the privilege that I have and the power that I have on behalf of someone who doesn't have it.
(17:44):
It kind of reminds me this question of is the apology enough or is the acknowledgement enough? It reminds me of what we did in the eighties and nineties around the racial reconciliation movement and the Promise Keepers thing and all those big conferences where the notion that the work of reconciliation was to stand on the stage and say, I realize I'm white and you're black, and I'm sorry. And we really thought that that was the work and that was sufficient to clear everything that needed to be cleared, and that was enough to allow people to move forward in proximity and connection to each other. And I think some of what we're living through 40, 45 years later is because that was not enough.
(18:53):
It barely scratched the surface to the extent that you can say that Donald Trump is not the problem. He is a symptom of the problem. To the extent that you could say that his success is about him stoking the fires that lie just beneath the surface in the realization that what happened with reconciliation in the nineties was not actually repair, it was not actually reconciliation. It was, I think what you're saying, Jenny, the sort of performative space where I'm speaking the language of repair and reconciliation, but I haven't actually done the work or paid the cost that is there in order to be reconciled.
Danielle (19:40):
That's in my line though. That's the continuum of moral awareness. You arrive to a spot, you address it to a certain point. And in that realm of awareness, what we've been told we can manage to think about, which is also goes back to Jenny's point of what the system has said. It's almost like under our system we have to push the system. It's so slow. And as we push the system out and we gain more awareness, then I think we realize we're not okay. I mean, clearly Latinos are not okay. They're a freaking mess. I think Mother Fers, half of us voted for Trump. The men, the women are pissed. You have some people that are like, you have to stay quiet right now, go hide. Other people are like, you got to be in the streets. It's a clear mess. But I don't necessarily think that's bad because we need to have, as a large group of people, a push of our own moral awareness.
(20:52):
What did we do that hurt ourselves? What were we willing to put up with to recolonize ourselves to agree to it, to agree to the fact that you could recolonize yourself. So I mean, just as a people group, if you can lump us all in together, and then the fact that he's going after countries of origin, destabilizing Honduras telling Mexico to release water, there is no water to release into Texas and California. There isn't the water to do it, but he can rant and rave or flying drones over Venezuela or shooting down all these ships. How far have we allowed ourselves in the system you're describing Rebecca, to actually say our moral awareness was actually very low. I would say that for my people group, very, very low, at least my experience in the states,
Rebecca (21:53):
I think, and this is a working theory of mine, I think like what you're talking about, Danielle, specifically in Latino cultures, my question has been when I look at that, what I see as someone who's not part of Latino culture is that the invitation from whiteness to Latino cultures is to be complicit in their own erasure in order to have access to America. So you have to voluntarily drop your language, drop your accent, change your name, whatever that long list is. And I think when whiteness shows up in a culture in that way where the request or the demand is that you join in your own eraser, I think it leads to a certain kind of moral ignorance, if you will.
(23:10):
And I say that as somebody coming from a black American experience where I think the demand from whiteness was actually different. We weren't actually asked to participate in our own eraser. We were simply told that there's no version of your existence where you will have access to what whiteness offers to the extent that a drop is a drop is a drop. And by that I mean you could be one 16th black and be enslaved in the United States, whereas, so I think I have lots of questions and curiosities around that, about how whiteness shows up in a particular culture, what does it demand or require, and then what's the trajectory that it puts that culture on? And I'm not suggesting that we don't have ways of self-sabotage in black America. Of course we do. I just think our ways of self-sabotage are nuanced or different from what you're talking about because the way that whiteness has showed up in our culture has required something different of us. And so our sabotage shows up in a different way.
(24:40):
To me. I don't know. I still don't know what to do with the 20% of black men that voted for Trump. I haven't figured that one out yet. Perhaps I don't have enough moral awareness about that space. But when I look at what happened in Latino culture, at least my theory as someone from the outside looking in is like there's always been this demand or this temptation that you buy the narrative that if you assimilate, then you can have access to power. And so I get it. It's not that far of a leap from that to course I'll vote for you because if I vote for you, then you'll take care of us. You'll be good and kind and generous to me and mine. I get that that's not the deal that was made with black Americans. And so we do something different. Yeah, I don't know. So I'm open to thoughts, rebuttals, rebukes,
Jenny (25:54):
My mind is going to someone I quote often, Rosa Luxembourg, who was a democratic socialist revolutionary who was assassinated over a hundred years ago, and she wrote a book called Reform or Revolution arguing that the more capitalism is a system built on collapse because every time the system collapse, those who are at the top get to sweep the monopoly board and collect more houses, more land, more people. And so her argument was actually against things like unions and reforms to capitalism because it would only prolong the collapse, which would make the collapse that much more devastating. And her argument was, we actually have to have a revolution because that's the only way we're going to be able to redo this system. And I think that for the folks that I knew that voted for Trump, in my opinion, against their own wellness and what it would bring, it was the sense of, well, hopefully he'll help the economy.
(27:09):
And it was this idea that he was just running on and telling people he was going to fix the economy. And that's a very real thing for a lot of people that are really struggling. And I think it's easier for us to imagine this paternalistic force that's going to come in and make capitalism better. And yet I think capitalism will only continue to get worse on purpose. If we look at literally yesterday we were at the Department of Environmental Protections and we saw that there was black bags over it and the building was empty. And the things that are happening to our country that the richest of the ridge don't care that people's water and food and land is going to be poisoned in exponential rates because they will not be affected. And until we can get, I think the mass amount of people that are disproportionately impacted to recognize this system will never work for us, I don't know. I don't know what it will take. I know we've used this word coalition. What will it take for us to have a coalition strong enough to actually bring about the type of revolution that would be necessary? I
Rebecca (28:33):
Think it's in part in something that you said, Jenny, the premise that if this doesn't affect me, then I don't have any skin in this game and I don't really care. I think that is what will have to change. I think we have to come to a sense of if it is not well with the person sitting next to me, then it isn't well with me because as long as we have this mindset that if it doesn't directly affect me that it doesn't matter, then I think we're always sort of crabs in a barrel. And so maybe that's idealistic. Maybe that sounds a little pollyannaish, but I do think we have to come to this sense of, and this maybe goes along with what Danielle was saying about the continuum of moral awareness. Can I do the work of becoming aware of people whose existence and life is different than mine? And can that awareness come from this place of compassion and care for things that are harmful and hurtful and difficult and painful for them, even if it's not that way? For me, I think if we can get there with this sense of we rise and fall together, then maybe we have a shot at doing something better.
(30:14):
I think I just heard on the news the other day that I think it used to be a policy that on MLK Day, certain federal parks and things were free admission, and I think the president signed an executive order that's no longer true, but you could go free if you go on Trump's birthday. The invitation and the demand that is there to care only about yourself and be utterly dismissive of anyone and everyone else is sickening.
Jenny (30:51):
And it's one of the things that just makes me go insane around Christian nationalism and the rhetoric that people are living biblically just because they don't want gay marriage. But then we'll say literally, I'm just voting for my bank account, or I'm voting so that my taxes don't go to feed people. And I had someone say that to me and they're like, do you really want to vote for your taxes to feed people? I said, absolutely. I would much rather my tax money go to feed people than to go to bombs for other countries. I would do that any day. And as a Christian, should you not vote for the least of these, should you not vote for the people that are going to be most affected? And that dissonance that's there is so crazy making to me because it's really the antithesis of, I think the message of Jesus that's like whatever you do to the least of these, you are doing to me. And instead it's somehow flipped where it's like, I just need to get mine. And that's biblical,
Rebecca (31:58):
Which I think I agree wholeheartedly as somebody who identifies as a Christian who seeks to live my life as someone that follows the tenets of scripture. I think part of that problem is the introduction of this idea that there are hierarchies to sin or hierarchies to sort of biblical priorities. And so this notion that somehow the question of abortion or gay rights, transgendered rights is somehow more offensive to scripture than not taking care of the least of these, the notion that there's such a thing as a hierarchy there that would give me permission to value one over the other in a way that is completely dismissive of everything except the one or two things that I have deemed the most important is deeply problematic to me.
Danielle (33:12):
I think just coming back to this concept of I do think there was a sense among the larger community, especially among Latino men, Hispanic men, that range of people that there's high percentage join the military, high percentage have tried to engage in law enforcement and a sense of, well, that made me belong or that gave my family an inn. Or for instance, my grandfather served in World War II and the Korean War and the other side of my family, the German side, were conscientious objectors. They didn't want to fight the Nazis, but then this side worked so hard to assimilate lost language, didn't teach my mom's generation the language. And then we're reintroducing all of that in our generation. And what I noticed is there was a lot of buy-in of we got it, we made it, we made it. And so I think when homeboy was like, Hey, I'm going to do this. They're like, not to me,
To me, not to me. It's not going to happen to me. I want my taxes lowered. And the thing is, it is happening to us now. It was always going to, and I think those of us that spoke out or there was a loss of the memory of the old school guys that were advocating for justice. There was a loss there, but I think it's come back with fury and a lot of communities and they're like, oh, crap, this is true. We're not in, you see the videos, people are screaming, I'm an American citizen. They're like, we don't care. Let me just break your arm. Let me run over your legs. Let me take, you're a US service member with a naval id. That's not real. Just pure absurdity is insane. And I think he said he was going to do it, he's doing it. And then a lot of people in our community were speaking out and saying, this is going to happen. And people were like, no, no, no, no, no. Well, guess what?
Rebecca (35:37):
Right? Which goes back to Martin Luther King's words about injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. The notion that if you're willing to take rights and opportunities and privileges from one, you are willing to take them from all. And so again, back to what Jenny said earlier, this notion that we rise our fall together, and as long as we have this mindset that I can get mine, and it doesn't matter if you don't get yours, there will always be a vulnerability there. And what you're saying is interesting to me, Danielle, talking about the military service in Latino communities or other whatever it is that we believed was the ticket in. And I don't think it's an accident or a coincidence that just around the time that black women are named the most educated and the fastest rising group for graduate and doctoral degrees, you see the dismantling of affirmative action by the Supreme Court.
(36:49):
You see now, the latest thing is that the Department of Education has come out and declassified a list of degrees as professional degrees. And overwhelmingly the degrees that are named on that list that are no longer considered professional are ones that are inhabited primarily by women and people of color. And I don't think that that is a coincidence, nor do I think it's a coincidence that in the mass firings of the federal government, 300,000 black women lost their jobs. And a lot of that is because in the nineties when we were graduated from college and getting our degrees, corporate America was not a welcome place for people of color, for black people, for black women. So we went into the government sector because that was the place where there was a bit more of a playing field that would allow you to succeed. And I don't think it is a coincidence that the dismantling intentionally of the on-ramps that we thought were there, that would give us a sense of belonging. Like you're in now, right? You have arrived, so to speak. And I am only naming the ones that I see from my vantage point. I hear you naming some things that you see from your vantage point, right? I'm sure, Jenny, you have thoughts about how those things have impacted white women.
Jenny (38:20):
Yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking about, we also went yesterday to the Native American Museum and I learned, I did not realize this, that there was something called, I want to say, the Pocahontas exception. And if a native person claimed up to one 14th of Pocahontas, DNA, they were then deemed white. What? And it just flabbergasted to me, and it was so evident just this, I was thinking about that when you were talking, Danielle, just like this moving target and this false promise of if you just do enough, if you just, you'll get two. But it's always a lie. It's always been a lie from literally the very first settlers in Jamestown. It has been a lie,
Rebecca (39:27):
Which is why it's sort of narcissistic and its sort of energy and movement, right? Because narcissism always moves the goalpost. It always changes the roles of the game to advantage the narcissist. And whiteness is good for that. This is where the goalpost is. You step up and meet it, and whiteness moves the goalpost.
Danielle (40:00):
I think it's funny that Texas redistricted based on how Latinos thought pre pre-migration crackdown, and they did it in Miami and Miami, Miami's democratic mayor won in a landslide just flipped. And I think they're like, oh, shit, what are we going to do? I think it's also interesting. I didn't realize that Steven Miller, who's the architect of this crap, did you know his wife is brown
Hell. That's creepy shit,
Rebecca (40:41):
Right? I mean headset. No, no. Vance is married to a brown woman. I'm sure in Trump's mind. Melania is from some Norwegian country, but she's an immigrant. She's not a US citizen. And the Supreme Court just granted cert on the birthright citizenship case, which means we're in trouble.
(41:12):
Well, I'm worried about everybody because once you start messing with that definition of citizenship, they can massage it any kind of way they want to. And so I don't think anybody's safe. I really don't. I think the low hanging fruit to speak, and I apologize for that language, is going to be people who are deemed undocumented, but they're not going to stop there. They're coming for everybody and anybody they can find any reason whatsoever to decide that you're not, if being born on US soil is not sufficient, then the sky's the limit. And just like they did at the turn of the century when they decided who was white and who wasn't and therefore who could vote and who could own property or who couldn't, we're going to watch the total and reimagining of who has access to power.
Danielle (42:14):
I just am worried because when you go back and you read stories about the Nazis or you read about genocide and other places in the world, you get inklings or World War I or even more ancient wars, you see these leads up in these telltale signs or you see a lead up to a complete ethnic cleansing, which is what it feels like we're gearing up for.
I mean, and now with the requirement to come into the United States, even as a tourist, when you enter the border, you have to give access to five years of your social media history. I don't know. I think some people think, oh, you're futurizing too much. You're catastrophizing too much. But I'm like, wait a minute. That's why we studied history, so we didn't do this again. Right?
Jenny (43:13):
Yeah. I saw this really moving interview with this man who was 74 years old protesting outside of an nice facility, and they were talking to him and one of the things he said was like, Trump knows immigrants are not an issue. He's not concerned about that at all. He is using this most vulnerable population to desensitize us to masked men, stealing people off the streets.
Rebecca (43:46):
I agree. I agree. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think it's desensitizing us. And I don't actually think that that is Trump. I don't know that he is cunning enough to get that whoever's masterminding, project 2025 and all that, you can ask the question in some ways, was Hitler actually antisemitic or did he just utilize the language of antisemitism to mask what he was really doing? And I don't mean that to sort of sound flippant or deny what happened in the Holocaust. I'm suggesting that same thing. In some ways it's like because America is vulnerable to racialized language and because racialized rhetoric moves masses of people, there's a sense in which, let me use that. So you won't be paying attention to the fact that I just stole billions of dollars out of the US economy so that you won't notice the massive redistribution of wealth and the shutting off of avenues to upward social mobility.
(45:12):
And the masses will follow you because they think it's about race, when in actuality it's not. Because if they're successful in undoing birthright citizenship, you can come after anybody you want because all of our citizenship is based on the fact that we were born on US soil. I don't care what color you are, I do not care what lineage you have. Every person in this country or every person that claims to be a US citizen, it's largely based on the fact that you were born on US soil. And it's easy to say, oh, we're only talking about the immigrants. But so far since he took office, we've worked our way through various Latin cultures, Somali people, he's gone after Asian people. I mean, so if you go after birthright citizenship and you tell everyone, we're only talking about people from brown countries, no, he's not, and it isn't going to matter. They will find some arbitrary line to decide you have power to vote to own property. And they will decide, and this is not new in US history. They took whole businesses, land property, they've seized property and wealth from so many different cultures in US history during Japanese internment during the Tulsa massacre. And those are only the couple that I could name. I'm sure Jenny and Danielle, you guys could name several, right? So it's coming and it's coming for everybody.
Jenny (47:17):
So what are you guys doing to, I know that you're both doing a lot to resist, and we talk a lot about that. What are you doing to care for yourself in the resistance knowing that things will get worse and this is going to be a long battle? What does helping take care of yourself look like in that for you?
Danielle (47:55):
I dunno, I thought about this a lot actually, because I got a notification from my health insurance that they're no longer covering thyroid medication that I take. So I have to go back to my doctor and find an alternative brand, hopefully one they would cover or provide more blood work to prove that that thyroid medication is necessary. And if you know anything about thyroids, it doesn't get better. You just take that medicine to balance yourself. So for me, my commitment and part of me would just want to let that go whenever it runs out at the end of December. But for me, one way I'm trying to take care of myself is one, stocking up on it, and two, I've made an appointment to go see my doctor. So I think just trying to do regular things because I could feel myself say, you know what?
(48:53):
Just screw it. I could live with this. I know I can't. I know I can technically maybe live, but it will cause a lot of trouble for me. So I think there's going to be probably not just for me, but for a lot of people, like invitations as care changes, like actual healthcare or whatever. And sometimes those decisions financially will dictate what we can do for ourselves, but I think as much as I can, I want to pursue staying healthy. And it's not just that just eating and exercising. So that's one way I'm thinking about it.
Rebecca (49:37):
I think I'm still in the phase of really curating my access to information and data. There's so much that happens every day and I cannot take it all in. And so I still largely don't watch the news. I may scan a headline once every couple days just to kind of get the general gist of what is happening because I can't, I just cannot take all of that in. Yeah, it will be way too overwhelming, I think. So that still has been a place of that feels like care. And I also think trying to move a little bit more, get a little bit of, and I actually wrote a blog post this month about chocolate because when I grew up in California seas, chocolate was a whole thing, and you cannot get it on the east coast. And so I actually ordered myself a box of seas chocolate, and I'm waiting for it to arrive at my house costs way too much money. But for me, that piece of chocolate represents something that makes me smile about my childhood. And plus, who doesn't think chocolate is care? And if you live a life where chocolate does not care, I humbly implore you to change your definition of care. But yeah, so I mean it is something small, but these days, small things that feel like there's something to smile about or actually big things.
Jenny (51:30):
I have been trying to allow myself to take dance classes. It's my therapy and it just helps me. A lot of the things that we're talking about, I don't have words for, I can only express through movement now. And so being able to be in a space where my body is held and I don't have to think about how to move my body and I can just have someone be like, put your hand here. That has been really supportive for me. And just feeling my body move with other bodies has been really supportive for me.
Rebecca (52:17):
Yeah. The other thing I would just add is that we started this conversation talking about Marjorie Taylor Green and the ways in which I feel like her response is insufficient, but there is a part of me that feels like it is a response, it however small it is, an acknowledgement that something isn't right. And I do think you're starting to see a little bit of that seep through. And I saw an interview recently where someone suggested it's going to take more than just Trump out of office to actually repair what has been broken over the last several years. I think that's true. So I want to say that putting a little bit of weight in the cracks in the surface feels a little bit like care to me, but it still feels risky. I don't know. I'm hopeful that something good will come of the cracks that are starting to surface the people that are starting to say, actually, this isn't what I meant when I voted. This isn't what I wanted when I voted. That cities like Miami are electing democratic mayors for the first time in 30 years, but I feel that it's a little bit risky. I am a little nervous about how far it will go and what will that mean. But I think that I can feel the beginnings of a seedling of hope that maybe this won't be as bad as maybe we'll stop it before we go off the edge of a cliff. We'll see.
If you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.
This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.
ResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416
Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416
Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715
Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416
Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793
Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.
ResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511
Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276
Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4
Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.
• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx
• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.
• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.
Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.
Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.
Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in Counseling
Email: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.com
Phone: +1.5104686137
Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.com
I have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.
By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me…